I’ve done a bit of integration with your API and it works well. I am primarily using it to enable “hard button” capabilities. For hard buttons I am using Insteon 8 Button Mini Remotes. These triggers programs in my ISY, which then make calls to the Simple Control API. Right now I am just using the /activities endpoint for activity switching (e.g. button A on remote 1 runs DirecTV activity in Family Room). I have also experimented with the /devices endpoint for controlling AVR volume.
The use I see for hard buttons is the common activities like: up / down / mute volume, channel changing, play / pause, and 5 way navigation pad. Anything more complex and I go to the app. Alexa integration works pretty good for some of these simple tasks, but nothing is faster for pausing or muting than picking up a hard button remote and using muscle memory to hit the appropriate button.
To that end, the following features would be nice to see added to the APIs:
- /rooms endpoint to get info about rooms including activities in the room and the currently selected activity and then be able to control the appropriate activity in the appropriate room
I’d like to be able to control the current activity by sending it generic commands like play / pause / mute and have Simple Control translate these to the appropriate device commands. At this point it becomes an implementation detail, but I could see this set of commands either going against a room and having Simple Control figure out the appropriate activity based on what is active in the room, or by knowing the current activity in a room the commands could be sent to the activity. Currently I am able to say something like “Alexa, tell Simple Control to pause” and Simple Control does its magic and pauses the current activity in the current room, so something like this must be exposed already via the Alexa integration.
On a side note, the Insteon / ISY / Simple Control integration works well for hard buttons, but the physical layout of the buttons is not that great and there aren’t quite enough buttons so I also continue to look at other options. I am considering working with an electronic design company to design something myself and perhaps turn it into a product: a small ergonomic WiFi remote with a limited set of generic buttons (as described above) whose button presses would result in calls to user-defined HTTP endpoints. I’ve done some searching and haven’t really found anything like this.
Right, so that sounds like a super difficult road. I’ve seen people do these things (non-productized) and it’s not scalable. These paths are either expensive to productize or expensive to build on a DIY basis or totally locked into a very elaborate Rube Goldberg patchwork.
So I would just note that while at some point there probably will be API enhancements, the closest and simplest path short term may be what we put into 6.0 (planned for this Fall). Apple announced PS4 and Xbox One controller support for iOS 13. The problem with the old Game Controller support was there simply were not enough buttons/controls to replicate a true hard button remote.
The PS4 and Xbox controllers on the other hand are replete with numerous input options, are top notch hardware/ergonomic solutions, already widely distributed, and inexpensive. I’ve been using V6 with it lately and it might just fit the bill. We’ll see. The trick is controlling activities. I haven’t decided yet how to go about that. I could make it necessary to see the iOS screen. So you use the controller wherein right thumbstick is the Activity stick. Tap to bring up an Activity list, down, select, activity changes. Or, I could put in voice feedback as it would otherwise be the only reason to need the iOS screen. In that scenario, you’d tap, it would say “Select Activity”, down, it says “TiVo”, you hit Select, activity changes.
Anyway, point is solutions like that where we’re integrating it directly means the play, pause, volume, etc, all work for every Activity and highly custom solutions with bad ergonomics or hardware aren’t needed. Though, it’s too early to say what is in V6 so far will truly be a complete solution that extends to activity switching, from every other perspective it is a huge step forward as a simple hard button solution.
I use a Simple Control / ISY+Node Server / Logitech Harmony setup to control my system. I wrote a bunch of ISY programs to sync my Simple Control activities with corresponding Harmony activities. For instance, I have a “Watch Plex” activity in Simple Control and one in Harmony. I can start the activity from either remote and the activity state will sync with the other remote. I get all the hard buttons and ergonomics I need from the Harmony, and all the in depth control, feedback, and media guides from Simple Control. I’m very happy with the results. Since I am running Harmony node server for ISY, I don’t have to rely on IFTTT or cloud APIs. I’ve been running the setup for about 5 months, and it has been rock solid, though it took a lot ISY program debugging to get there. I am excited to see what V6 brings with a more direct hard button solution.
Definitely looking forward to 6.0. It sounds like a promising alternative. From your description it sounds like you would intend that the basic commands (pause, play, mute, volume, channel, etc.) would be hard button only with no need to look at the UI. Do I understand that right? If so, definitely on the right track.
I have spoken with some friends with experience about the piece of hardware I described. Similar feedback you gave - I need to be prepared to drop $50k - $100k to get through design and prototype for something that is decent and can be manufactured. Obviously I’d have to look at this as a business and not a hobby effort. No specific desire to do this, but there may be a market.
I think the only issue with the game controller is WAF. Women aren’t likely going to find that very appealing. I don’t do this for a living, but I try to make my system usable by my wife and guests to the extent that they can “just use it” without much learning curve. For example, I have a guest room with a TV in the room and that’s it. All of the sources are in a central media closet and the guest room TV is connected via a HDMI matrix switch. I wouldn’t want to explain Simple Control or a game controller to a guest. For now I just limit them to watching DirevcTV and they have a DirecTV remote. But with a more integrated remote they could watch Roku, AppleTV, BRD, PC, etc. I think any consumer home automation product has to consider things like this to make adoption as wide as possible.
I am not a Control4 fan since they are so into vendor lock-in and custom programming, but they do have a nice remote. Though I think they went too far. Get rid of the LCD screen. Not needed. That’s what the app should be for and this is where Simple Control wins big. I’d also kill some of the buttons, but in general it is pretty streamlined, in the right shape, passable ergonomics, and a familiar form factor to non-technical people / people unfamiliar with the system.
In any case, it sounds like you guys are thinking about it, and I look forward to the coming development. And, yeah, it would still be great to see API enhancements for more technical folks like me.
Now that we have the harmony integration not sure why RR has to bring out a hard remote ? Am I missing something. I would rather have RR invest more time and efforts in improving automation routines. I use ISY a lot for programming it will be nice to similar features in RR. For instance if a certain thing happens send an email and text messages, repeat the same until the alter is removed/reset
So, can you tell me how the integration works? Do I basically need to have all my devices and all my activities set up in Harmony in addition to Roomie? I agree this would work, but isn’t ideal. I think @Will_Price has ruled out any development activity on a hard button remote. I get that. That is a big capital investment. I would still argue that exposing the APIs I have previously mentioned in several threads would be a low effort value-add that people would be free to use if it made sense for them.
I guess the intended use is to sync the activities using the same name so if you press say watch tv, it will execute watch tv on harmony and will set the remote interface buttons etc to tv compatible buttons…however in my case watch tv activity in RR does a lot of other things like say lights set-up etc…so the action items are not the same, so I ended up adding harmony activity as a next sequence step in the RR activity…just say add existing device, select the hub, the add command activity then select the corresponding harmony activity.
I guess I am going to have to buy one and experiment. Maybe it is the solution to all my (first world) problems!
So I would just note that while at some point there probably will be API enhancements . . .
@Will_Price, any update on when this might be on the roadmap?
In the context of this old thread, that already happened. The original request was: “I’d like to be able to control the current activity by sending it generic commands like play / pause / mute and have Simple Control translate these to the appropriate device commands”.
APIs to do exactly that were subsequently released as part of our Siri Shortcuts API. UI even exists for them in the Rooms editor for each room.
The new controller support for hard buttons did also subsequently get released in V6 and then enhanced again in V6.5. Unknown at the time of this thread, we then added Harmony Hardbutton integration greatly enhancing the hard button possibilities.
We did many times more things than discussed here in this area. If you’re specifically and only looking for a custom HTTP API, that’s an extremely specialized need (party of one?) that is difficult to prioritize since I’m not aware of anyone else needing that. To the extent we upgrade the HTTP API in the future, which remains something we would probably do one day, this may occur simply because it is a logical extension. That currently has no priority, so something would have to change for that to happen. For instance, if the systems that utilize our API (mainly SmartThings) needed more or changed APIs, that might precipitate it. Or, evidence of broader user need.
Thanks for the update and explaining this is a lower priority. It’s helpful just to know your thinking.
I guess the confusing part for me is this capability is already exposed to support the Alexa skill. Not sure why it would be difficult to expose that to the users, possibly with an altered contract. If it is just a preference thing - for example, maintaining control over the Roomie ecosystem - then it makes sense as it’s your product and your choice. Just seems like an easy win even if I am the only one regularly asking. I probably represent some X number of possible customers who want this feature, but aren’t asking.
I am back to posting since I have time to focus on this again. Next step is to experiment with Harmony as that seems like the best possible solution amongst the available choices. I am sure I will be here with questions. Thanks again.
Have you tried the new eisy with polyglot nodes? Do they work ? I cannot make it work in RR but they all work fine on eisy. BTW the API you developed for isy, is that shareable?
Which API? Do you mean how I have ISY sending commands to Roomie from my mini remotes?
Let me reframe my question, l have third party polygot nodes in eisy, like the Philips hue and harmony Remote, this enables to have all devices in one platform along with my Insteon devices…when I link the eisy to RR all Insteon devices work but third party devices added via polygot nodes doesn’t work…is there a way to make them work?
I see. Probably a question for Will and whether or not the behavior of Roomie needs to be modified to see the polyglot nodes the way it sees the original ISY nodes. I actually had to remove ISY from Roomie about a year ago after troubleshooting with UDI and found that Roomie was constantly polling the ISY which caused the ISY to drop packets. Honestly, the ISY should flake out over something like that, so don’t really blame Roomie. But I never opened a ticket either. Maybe there is some update work that could be done to the ISY integration since there have been numerous ISY changes over the last few years.
The problem with ISY has always been that it doesn’t notify us of anything. So it’s polling or nothing. By contrast, Lutron has a beautiful system that is perfectly efficient at notification so there’s no polling whatsoever.
The ISY people have not notified us of any changes so if there’s something new, they should do so.
However, those things you mentioned like Hue are controlled directly by Roomie so I’m not sure what the use case is anyway. That seems incredibly inefficient to send a Hue command through an ISY when it could be sent directly or even through the native iOS HomeKit API either of which are going to be much more efficient than going through a third system.
Hi Will, I will pass on the message to UD, re Hue yes I agree, for controls and changing colors etc, adding into RR via HomeKit is great, however eisy/isy automation @ programs is very good and there are a lot more other nodes, hue was just an example that I stated, as of now none of the node servers works in RR, so it’s just a general interface issue…again l will inform UD
Response from UD…
Supporting PG3 Node Servers and/or ZMatter Nodes will require them to make changes. I believe their integration is of our firmware version 4.x versions, 5.x added new device types. There is not much we can do if they do not upgrade their integration.
Most of the static commands (i.e. Insteon) will continue to work but new commands (i.e. node servers) may not work unless they have the same command definitions accepted by Insteon… ISY does not require polling if subscriptions are implemented, this is true in both 4.x and 5.x.
Right, that’s my point. This is the communication process that is based on “wait until a user complains and then hope you find the API changes”. So if I plugin an ancient ISY box that was called the ISY994, will it auto-update to that version with the problem? Or is this specific to a new box?
I never tired this with the old isy, that is now removed and cannot reinstall…the new box is the eisy unit